[RedSmurf]

Originally Posted by rolly

I like to hear a MAC users opinion on linux,if you have one.

I've never used a MAC,and I'm not familiar with the operating system,so I have no opinion of my own about a MAC.

I have heard about the fine hardware they use,and the great audio capabilities,but the price!!!!

I,m mostly curious to if you have used linux,then why do you prefer MAC?
If you haven't used linux,then a heresay opinion would be irrelevant.
Everything about a MAC is EXPENSIVE.
Everything about linux is free.

And there isn't anything that I've found yet that I can't do with linux,95% of the time,much,much better than the windows OS.

Well, I have used about every major operating system from the last 15 years. DOS, Windows, starting from 3.11 up to XP (I have seen Vista and I don't care about it like many people); UNIX, Linux (starting with Debian on the 2.4 kernel, now Gentoo on 2.6), and Mac OS since "System 6" and every release ever since.

DOS was just horrible. It's incredible how Microsoft managed to keep people into the delusion for more than 10 years that buying a computer meant copying arcane commands from a post-it note, once written down by "computer whizzkid nephew".

Windows only managed to become usable from Windows 95 on. Windows 3.11 was nothing more than a kind of elaborate graphical shell on top of DOS. But then there were the amazing amount of security holes, blue screens, viruses and spyware. The most annoying thing about this OS, and Microsoft software in general, is that it treats the user either as a total idiot or a computer expert, with nothing in between. Plug in your mouse in a different USB port and you get these stupid text balloons providing utterly useless information. Why? Also, once you dive into the control panels, the user gets an intimidating overload of options, with countless ways to screw up the entire system. Sometimes it seems like it's easier to pilot a 747 than to configure Windows. That's why they made all those "Wizards", to provide magic spells to get around all the trolls and orcs inside Windows' internals.

Linux is for free, and that's nice. But there's a proverb saying "time is money", and Linux does cost a whopping amount of time unless you're lucky or only want to send mails and browse the web. Today there are distributions like Ubuntu and Fedora which are supposed to be usable by "noobs", but still you're doomed to search through forums if you happen to have bought a piece of hardware that was not properly supported by the people who have put together these distributions. Personally I use Gentoo on my PC, which runs really smooth -- once you have spent several months figuring out how Linux actually works. That's very interesting for me, but not for my mom who is scared of anything with the complexity of a digital watch or above. I think the main strength about Linux is also its main problem. Linux is put together by a gazillion people who all want to make something universal, but in the end they're still humans and they want to do their own thing. It takes ages and ages before they reach a consensus about how to make something basic work system-wide, like fonts or sound.

As far as Mac is concerned, we bought our first Mac in 1989. I totally hated computers back then. Thanks to Microsoft's 1981 contract with IBM, I associated computers with the ugly black DOS screen with its arcane white commands, which looked hostile to an 11-year old kid like me. Therefore, I was very suspicious when my dad bought a Mac SE/30. Back then, Macs were shipped with a floppy disk which served as an intro to how to use a Macs. That demo first teached how to work with the mouse through some silly games, and then explained how the desktop metaphor and basic applications worked. Because every application in Mac OS was built around the same principles, once you had played the demo you could use practically anything, without reading a manual and filling 100 post-it notes with commands and keyboard shortcuts. It only took a week before my hatred towards computers turned into actual interest. Macs also happened to have HyperCard pre-installed. Nobody knows what HyperCard is today, but if I would have to sum it up in one sentence, for a kid it was the next best thing to Lego. On a Mac, fonts work the same in every application. Sound works, period. On our 1989 SE/30 we had stereo 8-bit 22kHz sound and we didn't need to set jumper switches and IRQs, or install 3 different sound systems and protocol bridges to make it work across all applications.

I use 4 operating systems every day. During work, I use Linux and a small amount of UNIX. In the evening I might play a game in Windows or even in Linux on my own PC. But for about everything serious or for games that run on it (yes, they exist), I use my Mac. I know it may sound old, but a Mac just works. You buy it, plug it in, and start working. Only the options you really need to be able to change in the control panels. No wizards, no arcane commands, no confusing "captain obvious" messages every time a device is plugged in, and no requests to destroy my neatly arranged desktop icons because I didn't click them for two weeks. If you do want to perform lower-level stuff, there is a terminal with a bash prompt that gives access to the UNIX system that forms the core of Mac OS X.

Macs may seem expensive, but if you would order a Dell with a similar configuration, you'll end up with a comparable price tag. Yes, you can put together a PC yourself from bare components for less, but 80% of people don't even dare to touch a CPU or simply don't have the time.
Yes, there are bugs and kernel panics in Mac-land too. There are some design decisions from Apple that make me mad. I'm not fond of the ads that rely on insulting the typical PC user. There are rumors of OS X malware that relies on "social engineering". But these problems are nothing compared to the efforts to make my home-made PC work. I only use Windows because it happens to have games exclusively developed for it, and I use Linux because I find it interesting. But if I would have no time to play games or to fiddle with Linux, I would sell my PC and only use my Mac.

[vikulenka]

Originally Posted by RedSmurf

Well, I have used about every major operating system from the last 15 years. DOS, Windows, starting from 3.11 up to XP (I have seen Vista and I don't care about it like many people); UNIX, Linux (starting with Debian on the 2.4 kernel, now Gentoo on 2.6), and Mac OS since "System 6" and every release ever since.

DOS was just horrible. It's incredible how Microsoft managed to keep people into the delusion for more than 10 years that buying a computer meant copying arcane commands from a post-it note, once written down by "computer whizzkid nephew".

Windows only managed to become usable from Windows 95 on. Windows 3.11 was nothing more than a kind of elaborate graphical shell on top of DOS. But then there were the amazing amount of security holes, blue screens, viruses and spyware. The most annoying thing about this OS, and Microsoft software in general, is that it treats the user either as a total idiot or a computer expert, with nothing in between. Plug in your mouse in a different USB port and you get these stupid text balloons providing utterly useless information. Why? Also, once you dive into the control panels, the user gets an intimidating overload of options, with countless ways to screw up the entire system. Sometimes it seems like it's easier to pilot a 747 than to configure Windows. That's why they made all those "Wizards", to provide magic spells to get around all the trolls and orcs inside Windows' internals.

Linux is for free, and that's nice. But there's a proverb saying "time is money", and Linux does cost a whopping amount of time unless you're lucky or only want to send mails and browse the web. Today there are distributions like Ubuntu and Fedora which are supposed to be usable by "noobs", but still you're doomed to search through forums if you happen to have bought a piece of hardware that was not properly supported by the people who have put together these distributions. Personally I use Gentoo on my PC, which runs really smooth -- once you have spent several months figuring out how Linux actually works. That's very interesting for me, but not for my mom who is scared of anything with the complexity of a digital watch or above. I think the main strength about Linux is also its main problem. Linux is put together by a gazillion people who all want to make something universal, but in the end they're still humans and they want to do their own thing. It takes ages and ages before they reach a consensus about how to make something basic work system-wide, like fonts or sound.

As far as Mac is concerned, we bought our first Mac in 1989. I totally hated computers back then. Thanks to Microsoft's 1981 contract with IBM, I associated computers with the ugly black DOS screen with its arcane white commands, which looked hostile to an 11-year old kid like me. Therefore, I was very suspicious when my dad bought a Mac SE/30. Back then, Macs were shipped with a floppy disk which served as an intro to how to use a Macs. That demo first teached how to work with the mouse through some silly games, and then explained how the desktop metaphor and basic applications worked. Because every application in Mac OS was built around the same principles, once you had played the demo you could use practically anything, without reading a manual and filling 100 post-it notes with commands and keyboard shortcuts. It only took a week before my hatred towards computers turned into actual interest. Macs also happened to have HyperCard pre-installed. Nobody knows what HyperCard is today, but if I would have to sum it up in one sentence, for a kid it was the next best thing to Lego. On a Mac, fonts work the same in every application. Sound works, period. On our 1989 SE/30 we had stereo 8-bit 22kHz sound and we didn't need to set jumper switches and IRQs, or install 3 different sound systems and protocol bridges to make it work across all applications.

I use 4 operating systems every day. During work, I use Linux and a small amount of UNIX. In the evening I might play a game in Windows or even in Linux on my own PC. But for about everything serious or for games that run on it (yes, they exist), I use my Mac. I know it may sound old, but a Mac just works. You buy it, plug it in, and start working. Only the options you really need to be able to change in the control panels. No wizards, no arcane commands, no confusing "captain obvious" messages every time a device is plugged in, and no requests to destroy my neatly arranged desktop icons because I didn't click them for two weeks. If you do want to perform lower-level stuff, there is a terminal with a bash prompt that gives access to the UNIX system that forms the core of Mac OS X.

Macs may seem expensive, but if you would order a Dell with a similar configuration, you'll end up with a comparable price tag. Yes, you can put together a PC yourself from bare components for less, but 80% of people don't even dare to touch a CPU or simply don't have the time.
Yes, there are bugs and kernel panics in Mac-land too. There are some design decisions from Apple that make me mad. I'm not fond of the ads that rely on insulting the typical PC user. There are rumors of OS X malware that relies on "social engineering". But these problems are nothing compared to the efforts to make my home-made PC work. I only use Windows because it happens to have games exclusively developed for it, and I use Linux because I find it interesting. But if I would have no time to play games or to fiddle with Linux, I would sell my PC and only use my Mac.

Bravo, RedSmurf. On that note this thread can be closed

[rolly]

Bravo, RedSmurf. On that note this thread can be closed

Closed!Oh no!Why?
That was a very interesting read,can't talk music all the time,especially in the computing forum.

Thanks RedSmurf.
I enjoyed reading your opinion,and respect your views.

I would only disagree,and then only partially,on one statement.

if you happen to have bought a piece of hardware that was not properly supported by the people who have put together these distributions.

Most hardware related problems in linux come from the direct fault of the manufacturer themselves,rather than from the linux dev teams.
The drivers for new hardware,especially new hardware,are written for windows,and they don't take the time to remember that windows isn't the only OS out there.
The devs have to write the drivers themselves,and if it is closed source,it is only hit and miss.
Hewlett Packard and many others are now making a tremendous effort to support linux in all their new products,and write drivers for their older products.
The linux community that is "in the know" are boycotting manufacturers that do not include linux in their initial support,and these manufacturers are feeling the pressure,and starting to follow suit.

Saying that you are a Gentoo user,obviously says that you are an experienced linux user.Gentoo is definetely not for the new user.
However,the "easy" linux distributions such as ubuntu you talk about have indeed became much easier.
There are several I could mention that are much better than ubuntu,both for hardware support,and generally being easier to learn linux.

I can't disagree with anything you said about a MAC,because if I did,I'd be lying.
I don't know the first thing about a MAC.
But as you say,"it just works",sure sounds more like linux to me.