[Hirs Ute]

Another point (and I don't really know what to conclude from it ) is that the IFPI have managed to get Tele2, a Danish ISP, to block access to The Pirate Bay (the infamous file sharing site). Apparently the block isn't in place yet (well it may be now) but should be implemented imminently.

In 2006 Tele2 were ordered to block access to AllofMP3 (which may still be in place) but I'm not aware of any block being put on Sparks.

In writing this I've probably confused myself (and you) but has anyone got an opinion on this apparently conflicting situation?

[solaris]

Originally Posted by Hirs Ute

Another point (and I don't really know what to conclude from it ) is that the IFPI have managed to get Tele2, a Danish ISP, to block access to The Pirate Bay (the infamous file sharing site). Apparently the block isn't in place yet (well it may be now) but should be implemented imminently.

In 2006 Tele2 were ordered to block access to AllofMP3 (which may still be in place) but I'm not aware of any block being put on Sparks.

In writing this I've probably confused myself (and you) but has anyone got an opinion on this apparently conflicting situation?

Sorry, Hirs Ute


I would have written about this yesterday but I was having computer troubles (I got it fixed, though)...

The same court (that ordered AllOfMP3 to be blocked in November 2006, and MP3Sparks in August 2007) has now ordered Danish ISP Tele2 to block access to The Pirate Bay - the gigantic Swedish torrent tracker.

What this obviously Internet unsavvy judge didn't realize was that he at the same time probably ordered the closure of the entire Internet for all Danish citizens.

When this court ordered first AllOfMP3 and then MP3Sparks DNS-blocked, it "only" affected approximately 100,000 people. Many of those immediately changed their DNS-settings to OpenDNS or similar out-of-country ISP-servers and thereby circumventing/annulling this hindrance.

Even if those 100,000, who were affected, did complain loudly, even more people either didn't care (it wasn't their favourite P2P or BitTorrent-tracker, which were being blocked) or even thought it was fair because they kept getting misinformed through Danish media, which only told the IFPI-side of the story.

The court's reason for blocking AllOfMP3 and MP3Sparks wasn't even that it was illegal for Danish citizens to visit and download music from the site.

Instead it was because there was a microscopic possibility that an employee at a Danish ISP would be able to collect all the thousands of packages of zeroes and ones coming from the server in Moscow and join these to make a digital copy, which he didn't own

This time however, it isn't the servers (probably located in Stockholm), which are the problem because they don't store any copyrighted material. This time it is because Danish citizens will be able to search, find and download copyrighted material if/when they visit The Pirate Bay.

But the problem is, that not only is it possible to download lots of legal files using The Pirate Bay - but searching, finding and downloading copyrighted material using Google or any other search engine is equally simple. These could be court ordered next. Probably not on the initiative of IFPI but more likely by the pirates themselves to emphasize the ridiculousness of such a search engine censorship.

The ordered blocking of The Pirate Bay has created an outcry in Denmark because between 10 and 20 per cent of the population use the tracker on a large scale and is one the 25 most visited sites each day of the week.

The Pirate Bay and The Association of Pirates in Denmark have proclaimed that they will "educate" the Danish people by teaching them how to circumvent this blocking. their first move will be to buy full page space in major Danish newspapers and magazines and "equip" the Danish people with guides how to use OpenDNS and how to hide behind a VPN like RELAKKS.

Now I want to go back to November 2006, when the court ordered the blocking of AllOfMP3.

Many foresighted Danish people pointed out that by censuring this Russian online music store, IFPI had started a slide towards a Chinese-like dictatorship, where larger and larger parts of the Internet would be tried cut off.

But this would ultimately be in vain because people would find ways around this censuring and thereby also helping the sick bastards (searching for child pornography), who were in fact the first ones to feel a DNS-block in Denmark. Some of these either had or would have found ways around the Danish police's DNS-filtering anyway - but the majority would actually have been cut off. But not now.

I will post more about this, if I suddenly remember more details about this unfortunate event here in Scandinavia. A situation that could rapidly affect the population in other countries too.

But I will also keep you updated as this whole thing unfolds the next days and weeks...

[Hirs Ute]

Indeed, the antics of China, or maybe even North Korea cropping up in our own European backyard I wonder what Tim Berners-Lee would make of this very sorry situation.

[solaris]

Originally Posted by solaris

The court's reason for blocking AllOfMP3 and MP3Sparks wasn't even that it was illegal for Danish citizens to visit and download music from the site.

Instead it was because there was a microscopic possibility that an employee at a Danish ISP would be able to collect all the thousands of packages of zeroes and ones coming from the server in Moscow and join these to make a digital copy, which he didn't own

Here is a link to the full court order (in English) for Danish ISP's to block AllOfMP3 back in October/November 2006:


The Pro Piracy Lobby

[solaris]

Originally Posted by solaris

The Pirate Bay and The Association of Pirates in Denmark have proclaimed that they will "educate" the Danish people by teaching them how to circumvent this blocking. their first move will be to buy full page space in major Danish newspapers and magazines and "equip" the Danish people with guides how to use OpenDNS and how to hide behind a VPN like RELAKKS.

Now I want to go back to November 2006, when the court ordered the blocking of AllOfMP3.

Many foresighted Danish people pointed out that by censuring this Russian online music store, IFPI had started a slide towards a Chinese-like dictatorship, where larger and larger parts of the Internet would be tried cut off.

But this would ultimately be in vain because people would find ways around this censuring and thereby also helping the sick bastards (searching for child pornography), who were in fact the first ones to feel a DNS-block in Denmark. Some of these either had or would have found ways around the Danish police's DNS-filtering anyway - but the majority would actually have been cut off. But not now.

To bypass these kinds of DNS-blockings is laughably easy: Just follow this guide: http://www.aom3.org/forum/22877-post1.html


Note that the Cogent backbone blocking of MP3Sparks is quite another matter, which the above tip won't rectify...

[Hirs Ute]

Originally Posted by solaris

Here is a link to the full court order (in English) for Danish ISP's to block AllOfMP3 back in October/November 2006:


The Pro Piracy Lobby

Surely there are other ISP's in Denmark. Does anyone know if Tele2 has been singled out to do the blocking alone or are other ISP's named? I'm confused

[solaris]

Originally Posted by Hirs Ute

Surely there are other ISP's in Denmark. Does anyone know if Tele2 has been singled out to do the blocking alone or are other ISP's named? I'm confused

Like the two other times Tele2 was singled out because they are the smallest one (IFPI like that) - and all the other ISP's were forced to follow with the court ruling in hand.

[solaris]

A Danish guy called Michael Nielsen wrote this insightful piece on The Register: Comments on ‘IFPI wins Danish block on Pirate Bay’ | The Register


He certainly wraps up the fatal consequences - not only for people living in Denmark - but for all people living within The European Union

Which is also why I wonder why no other forum members (except for Hirs Ute) has commented on this. It will surely come your way too

It is a victory for them (the content owners), which opens a floodgate into EU, unfortunately the ISP's are not fighting back, and just complying, the injunction is only intended as a temporary means until the case is tried in the 'real' court system, however the precedent is there, AllOfMp3 was blocked in Denmark in the same manner, but because the ISP's never did take the case to court, then the temporary injunction has become permanent. The rest of the ISP's in Denmark are now waiting for IFPI to contact them and ask them to block the pirate bay.

It all started with the introduction of a child pornography filter in Denmark, the idea of which is morally sound, unfortunately it violates the constitution of Denmark, which forbids any censorship of any kind. However since it was possible to take the high moral ground with that particular bit of censorship, Censorship has now been introduced into Denmark. Sites are censored, without being tried by the justice system - on the word of a private organisations, because legally the government cannot condone censorship.

The filter was introduced voluntarily by the ISP's and therefore the censorship was enforced by private parties, and therefore not subject to the anti-censorship laws, the police is involved in listing the sites that are to be blocked, which is supposed to give some kind of security against blatant abuse, however already several innocent sites have been blocked by that filter, though they do not link to or contain any illegal content, some of them have been removed from the filter again.

Originally when that particular bit of censorship was introduced it was said the filter would never be expanded, however it is slowly expanding to include sites which some people don't like, others deem to be illegal, but all without the sites being able to defend them selves in the justice system, or indeed even informed that they are censored.

However the introduction of the first bit of censorship, which is easy to argue for, and impossible to argue against, because the warnings of the possible erosion of civil liberties, that this could cause, seemed very weak compared to the protect children against abuse argument.

Now that Censorship is in place, and tolerated by nearly all, and supported by the vast majority, It is now easy to expand the censorship, by claiming sites to be illegal, which is what IFPI is doing now.

So Denmark has no official Censorship, and the Censorship is considered voluntary, controlled by private interest groups, and the government can wash their hands, saying they're not doing it, and they can ignore the anti-censorship laws.

If a country with explicit anti-censorship laws can introduce censorship, it creates a precedent for introducing censorship in other countries, for instance countries like the UK where there are already content censorship, it will be easier, now that they have undermined the constitution in one country.

However civil liberties groups in Denmark are mainly like toothless dogs which you rarely hear from, which IMO the reason why Denmark has been picked out for this action, I hope civil liberties groups in other countries are more effective in fighting this creeping erosion of freedom.

[Nightfly]

Solaris,
Excellent above post..I am sorry that it has reached your backyard as
well..But this shows "speak up or loose it" this goes for everyone,
everywhere..My country has been taking away our civil liberties
one at a time for awhile now,so I feel some of your your anguish.
But we all must act together and say "we're mad as hell and we're not going
to take it anymore'" or something to that effect.
Silence is not a option.

[squash54]

Originally Posted by solaris

A Danish guy called Michael Nielsen wrote this insightful piece on The Register: Comments on ‘IFPI wins Danish block on Pirate Bay’ | The Register


He certainly wraps up the fatal consequences - not only for people living in Denmark - but for all people living within The European Union

Which is also why I wonder why no other forum members (except for Hirs Ute) has commented on this. It will surely come your way too

Solaris,

I applaud Mr. Nielsen's sentiments, but my intuition is there are a number of factual errors in his post. For example, his assertion that the Constitution of Denmark makes ANY censorship illegal; Does that mean publishing child pornography or inciting racial vilification is OK? Or to adapt another oft-quoted example - is one free to shout "FIRE" in a crowded theatre in Denmark?

If you can refer me to an article analysing of the Danish court's decision, written by a suitably qualified legal academic, I would be very interested to read it, and publish my comments on it here. If the decision sets an important legal precedent in Denmark, I would be surprised if such commentary did not exist. (The problem, for me, is that such articles are probably going to be in Danish and my proficiency in Scandanavian lanuages is nowhere near that of yours in English ).

Squash

P.S. The labrador did not appreciate Mr. Nielsen's analogy of "toothless dogs" when it should be the FELINE "toothless tigers"